Good evening...

I fear I'm going to pass on the graphic...not for fear of this government coming after me, but because the face of our president superimposed on the flag made me nauseous, and while I get a few visitors here and there, I figure that until I can send out anti-nausea pills through the internet pipes it would be rude to unprepared visitors.

As a side note...we took the momma cat and her mostly feral kittens to be spayed today(after all, our cat was the daddy) intent always being to keep momma, since our cat really likes her and she's a gorgeous love(though very skittish), but to tame and find homes for the 5 kittens. Well, Imp... had them at work, and one of the customers fell in love with the black tuxedo with the orange blaze down her nose. However, while at the shelter waiting for the mass of cats to be fixed (three vets did 70+), she fell for a white flamepoint tailess fluffy kitty and adopted him. Sigh. So 5 cats went and 5 returned-Ember (momma cat) is pissed as hell.
We are off to Charlottesville on the morrow for doctor's visits for the Mu at the Down Syndrome clinic, so I won't be around. I'm hoping nothing too interesting occurs for the next two days.

Good evening, Wild Clover.

I can't say that I blame Ember, but I certainly hope she gets used to the situation. If you ever have the chance, let us see some pictures. Maybe we could even do an adopt-a-cat post. If, that is, you and Imp haven't bonded with the cats already (for which I wouldn't blame you if you had; it takes me about five minutes to bond with a cat).

The Dark Wraith could start a cat adoption agency here at The Cat Wraith Forums.

There's quite a number of people that are not taking Bush's Executive Order seriously. Many at first think it's a joke until they see it's actually on WhiteHouse.Gov

I had one guy on a forum claim that "the site it came from is a propaganda site" referrring to my site. Another person had posted excerpts from the order and linked to my blog post on it.

This person originally thought it was just leftist propaganda.

When I pointed out to him that he was in effect calling whitehouse.gov propaganda and that I could go along with that assesment, he then said he thought I was blowing it way out of proportion.

His rationale was that Bush was only going after the terrorists and those that help terrorists. Funny, because the order doesn't mention terrorists or terrorism.

Others on the board seemed quite content to trust that Bush would do the right thing and apply the Executive Order reasonably.

I cannot fathom how anyone in this day in age would trust Bush to do the right thing let alone trust him to interpret law as he sees fit.

Nice graphic. Toilet paper with alternating images of this would be a good item to sell.

Good morning, DW.

Great jorb on the graphic, especially embiggened, but I'm with Wild Clover on this one. If I have to look at Mr. smug pug, awol from all responsibility, frat boy's face one more time, I, I, I'll go make a tuna salad sammich and eat it as angrily as physically possible. So there!

Funny you should mention that, trog.

Tonight, I'm going to treat myself to a homemade chicken salad sandwich: diced white meat, chopped boiled egg, mayonnaise, diced onions and green peppers, and a few thinly sliced green grapes and olives. I think I've got all the ingredients; if not, I'll use Spam instead of chicken.

In fact, I'm going to forgo the bread. My cat doesn't like the bread.

I'll pretend the chicken salad doesn't look like the state of the Republic.

The Dark Wraith doesn't want to lose his appetite.

DW, any thoughts on the Pakistan situation? In all honesty, I don't see how other countries can stay on the sidelines, knowing full well that the Taliban/al qaeda are gaining a real foot hold in the tribal regions. Does anyone believe that Musharraf cannot help the tribals, rather than that he won't go against the Islamic fundamentalists? [/threadjack]

DW: I'll pretend the chicken salad doesn't look like the state of the Republic.

Is that before or after consumption?

Indeed.

In Honor of the New American Century;

Are you talking about our entry into the 19th?

"DW, any thoughts on the Pakistan situation?" -- trog69

From the British Guardian:
U.S. Force Not Ruled Out in Pakistan

Good afternoon, Peter of Lone Tree.

I read that article this morning; thus my fishing for opinion. I guess my only real question is: How much strain will this put on the troops? Since Bush/Rumsfullofit spent every last dime of international support, how do we get them to do the right thing, and assist us, regardless? I fully admit that we broke Iraq...fixing it will be mostly on our dime. The situation in Pakistan is where our 'coalition forces' should have been deployed while still in Afghanistan in 2001/2002. "Hey, Germany, France; How's about we forget Iraq ever happened, and let's team up and get those ratfinks in Palookastan. Whadayasay?"

There's a wild card in this Texas Hold 'em Game that I don't think has been mentioned. I heard (probably a liberal press rumor) that Palookastan's neighbor, India, isn't really enamored with them! Shazam Sgt. Carter! And they have that big bomb, too. So if we go into Packets-tan and they get uppity, India just might come to "our" rescue.
Has Condi or anyone else been in India the last 3 or 4 months?
That might be more interesting than Isreal attacking Iran!

Any thoughts?

fixing it will be mostly on our dime.

That assumes it can be fixed. I don't believe it can be fixed, on anybody's dime except theirs.

Father Tyme: Any thoughts?

yeah. Any foreign policy discussion which includes "Shazam" is a winner in my book.(I giggled.)

Aren't India and China trying out 'going steady' ring sets? Perhaps when I stop giggling, I can start googling 'China foreign policy on Pakistan'.

Good evening, trog.

India doesn't have to do a thing. It's long-time rival and mutually assured destruction partner, Pakistan, is an exploding implosion.

I grudgingly admire Musharraf; most leaders would have been long gone by now under the conditions in which he operates, what with multiple assassination attempts (some being of his own creation, though) and about every manner of crazy and not-so-crazy type wanting him dead, along with his country being pulled apart like a pork loin that's been in the crockpot all day.

Now, in a world of logically irrational war violence, we would have used our temporary upgrade in global political capital right after 9/11 to roll over Afghanistan and, in our blind rage, lay waste to a good chunk of Pakistan where al-Qa'ida forces were concentrated. There are several reasons of shadowy origin for why we didn't, but there are plenty of obvious reasons, too. For one thing, Pakistan is a nuclear state, and it's always best not to take one's spite out on those who can make mushroom clouds. For another thing, we didn't attack Pakistan because, at first blush, it has all the strategic value of the neighbor's wading pool. (See, however, below, for an example of the perversity that stable states can be strategically useless, but when they become unstable, their strategic value skyrockets.)

Hence, we wasted our golden opportunity in the heady days after 9/11 to make a total mess out of yet another country.

That's unfortunate: whereas Iraq has turned into a real big headache without a whole lot of upside potential, Pakistan could have been a real big headache with at least the payoff that we were blasting al-Qa'ida where it actually was instead of wasting hundreds of billions of dollars building it a new summer vacation home in Iraq.

A few days ago, a U.S. government security adviser hinted we're already taking care of business in Pakistan. In plain English, that means we have incursive special ops teams going in and out, we're flying drones over the mountainous terrain, and we've put electronic sensing gear around known roads, mountain passes, and other potential transportation routes.

That's all well and good, but much of the part of Pakistan of tactical interest to us is like its neighbor, Afghanistan: it's a geographical hell-hole, and we're just not equipped to wage anything more than spit-and-run ops out there. Cripe, even Musharraf's own troops don't do well in that area, what with the way the tribes are so interlocked, fiercely dangerous, and altogether secretive against all outsiders.

Right now, all we're doing is publicly prodding Musharraf. He's alienated a his country's equivalent of our redneck Christian base, and he needs friends. The U.S. can play this to squeeze the man for more work to slow down the insurgency in Afghanistan that's still largely based in neighboring Pakistan.

Here's the problem, though: Musharraf is about out of tricks. In the old days, he had power--firepower, money power, and influence power--to spare, but he's drawing down, now. We're trying to shake blood from a turnip.

That doesn't mean Musharraf is "weakened"; it just means he can't up the military pressure on Taliban and al-Qa'ida forces in his country a whole lot more than he already has.

And what are we going to do? We've found that our military specialty in this part of the world largely comprises firing big missiles at giant rock outcroppings. Sometimes, we get lucky and kill a bunch of civilians, which does wonders for our ever-present goal of winning hearts and minds.

Yes, on rare occasion, we actually do hit some target of value; but God knows when that really happens, considering the Pentagon is so desperate for propaganda that it could wipe out everyone in a wedding party and declare that it had killed the Number 3 through Number 55 leaders of al-Qa'ida.

The bottom line: we're stalled in Afghanistan, NATO is bitching at us for putting its troops there without any real shut-off valve for the flow of trouble from Pakistan, and Pakistan is a worse problem than Afghanistan because it's not only a real bite in the ass to dominate politically and militarily, but it also has a leader we'd like to keep in power, considering a whole lot of the alternatives would be far worse for our regional interests.

--- continued below---

---continued from above---

Bad mojo all the way around, and we're stuck in the whole of Asia Minor in some ways worse than we are in Iraq because, whereas we can leave Iraq any old time we want with nothing more than a humiliating defeat under our belts, leaving the Afghanistan/Pakistan mess means leaving behind us an arc of real and prospective destabilization pretty darned attractive not just to jihadists, but also to a certain dragon and bear, either or both of whom might decide to help plunge the place into total chaos just to destabilize everything from U.S. friend Turkey all the way to the Caucasus and beyond.

God! but I do love a good romance novel.

The Dark Wraith can hardly wait for the next chapter in the series.

The Dark Wraith can hardly wait for the next chapter in the series.

I'm glad I can fall asleep while reading these days, I just wish I'd stay asleep thru the next few chapters 'cause I know they suck big time. Kind of like that Harry Potter book I hear.

What is this "Harry Potter" of which you speak, Monsieur Goat?

DW: What is this "Harry Potter" of which you speak, Monsieur Goat?

When I asked that question, I got MUGGlED by a bunch of 8 year olds.

I went to http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4384 and found out that China and Pakistan have been going out together for quite a while, and China has some business infrastructure in place there; somehow I get the feeling they may not take kindly to our obliterating businesses they helped set up. I'll certainly delve more into this, but it seems Musharraf may have a sino-master he owes more to than his western one.

Thanks for the input, DW. It shore 'nuff is just a tad more complicated then I knew.

I know plans have been to deal with the pakistani "firecrackers" when they change leadership.I am sure the thought of 30-40 nukes in the hands of those who refer to them as "the sword of allah" has given our planners enough sleepless nights to ensure it.But I also remember " the best laid plans of mice and men",and this dude named Murphy....

Snuffy,
Back in the "old days" (pre-2001) those nukes in Pakistan would be about as hazardous to us as global warming to the Sahara. Each and every one would have a big red target painted on them and unless they were scattered all over the country side, they wouldn't pose a sincere threat.
That was when we had real intelligence! Heck, we don't need to know what's going on over there; it may get in the way of starting Armageddon!
One of the things that a guy from my unit (who is now an "advisor" in that region) told me was that there is an attitude that minimal nukyular weapons used in terrain, specifically deep valleys, such as in Afghanistan and near-by Pakistan would have very different effects than standard nukes used in wide-open Iraq. He mentioned a thing called "channeled destruction"; sort of like a wave of water flowing through a valley sweeping everything clean; including those pesky tunnels; (and flora and fauna and villages). The thing that odd building in D.C. likes about it is that there would be little (??) adverse effects in the nukyular circle. So the mountains themselves would contain spread. Remember, small yield.
I remember some big wigs discussing this for use in Southeast Asia at the time. But the mountains weren't high enough and it might give us a bad name!
I'm sure this tactic has NEVER been tried!!! But there are advantages.
Just another little known tool of Georgie Boy.
And Murphy isn't partisan!

But Murphy does seem to have a deep emotional attachment to neo-cons.

DW:But Murphy does seem to have a deep emotional attachment to neo-cons.

Hey, leave us micks outta this! I'll bet you wouldn't throw slurs around like that if I wasn't sober!

DW's Sidebar: *(And they stink worse than his bowel polyps, too.)

+1! I've heard reports saying Bush seems more...coherent.

Gerbil: "Hey, what happened to the pitons?"

trog69,
Awww, now you've gone and done it! You spoiled my image of a buttiful, grand mountain range.

Haha! Father Tyme, You're a baaaad speller boy!

I don't know what I did wrong. I tried strike, del, s. Dangit.

DW,
"Bush · fascism · humor"?

You being intentionally humorous?

I've been laughing so hard I don't think my pants will ever dry out.

Senator Vitter might have a spare diaper he could lend.

...And on the eighth day God said:

"Okay, Murphy, you take over."

And Murphy said, "I already did."

DW: Zing!!

God, 15th day, noonish: " MEdamned, Murph; I'm only gone a week and everything's gone to...well, kinda south of here! What did you do?"

Murphy, hiding behind his still, looking around nervously: " Umm, see, after ya threw them two out, Edie and Aram..."

"Adam and Eve?"

"Yeah, well they said everybody was bored, so I made up some stories and put in a book they could read. Man, I came up with some doozies, too. Stuff even YOU couldn't imagine. I called it a bible. Trouble is, now they think it's all real! They wanna burn me alive for inventing this...umm, medicinal water machine!"

God: "D'oh!"

AND THAT'S HOW THE IRISH INVENTED WHISKEY! True story!

1. Murphy was an optimist.

2. The Irish may have invented whiskey, but the Scots perfected it.

;-)

Moody Blue, This rounds on me!

Let's continue drinking 'til I get smarter, and you agree with me!

Moody Blue,
My favorite Scottish export! I used to buy Ambassador 25 in the 70s when it was only 90 bucks a bottle (I'd save pennies from the church tithe!). But here in Pa. and I guess elsewhere, they stopped importing it. Sad! Since then, I've been on a holy crusade to find an acceptable substitute. Nothing yet, but I'll keep trying.
Any suggestions of that precious nectar I haven't tried would be welcomed!

trog69,
I didn't know that's how smarts worked. Duh! Gotta try it.

You know Dark Wraith there was a big nasty argument elsewhere that ended up with participants getting personal/borderline ridiculous, on the subject of whether or not "liberals or leftists" ought to use Nazi imagery. Some opinions:
"It isn't right to use images that people have an emotional reaction to, in order to make a point!"
"You should have an emotional reaction, whats happening is serious!"
"We would do well to learn some lessons from history, perhaps linkages remind us of the paths we DONT want to repeat!"
"I'm tired of supposed liberals diminishing the Holocaust"
"I'm tired of people thinking one genocide is worse, there have been thousands of Iraqi civilian casualties. And what about The Sudan? How is it so different?"
And so it went, round and round, Wraith. You get the gist.
I mention this because as I tried to stay out of it and listen to all, I have to admit that it caught me off guard. I really didn't think that it was so wrong to make comparisons if that is how a person expresses their views. Free speech and all that.

Point is, that many people have become kind of wary about inviting that whole argument and are now consciously trying to avoid these comparisons simply because it seems to spin out of control among some in our communities. How does a person respond?

Since this is integral to the post and graphic, I wonder about your views on this question.

Good morning, Lynn.

I cross-posted this graphic as a "diary" over at Pam's House Blend. It got promoted to headliner, and that's when all Hell broke loose.

Lord knows, I did my best for a while: first I posted another graphic in the comments based upon some previous comments about fear of using such symbolism.

Then came a fellow who decided people who use such symbols for the current state of affairs in this country render themselves "irrelevant"; he started invoking "Godwin's Law" over and over, finally announcing "You lose," as if that were the end of the matter in dealing with the likes of me.

Finally came a Jewish fellow who called my original graphic "Overdone and offensive," implying (and later denying) that the use of a Nazi icon for the current matter demeans the tragedy of the Holocaust. This is how I responded:

I, too, can claim to be the descendant of several outrages of history (among my claims, Jewish ancestry); those outrages, however, do not belong to me, and I shan't take umbrage on behalf of genuine victims of the monsters of the past, nor will I demand that symbols be declared off-limits to others who see in them the forewarnings of wicked things in my own time.

If you are offended by the conflation of the Bush Administration and its Right-wing policies with Nazism, don't look: that is precisely how the Germans allowed law, enforcement, and symbolism to contort into its far-reaching monster of genocide and destruction.

I would offer, instead, that you [too] declare me... 'irrelevant'; it won't matter, but you could do that, anyway.

Right now... nearly four thousand American soldiers are dead in an expansionist war campaign constructed from the whole cloth of lies woven by a bellicose Administration animated by the theoretical violence of neo-conservatives who know nothing—nothing!—of the burning-eyes, crackling-skin, soul-shattering realities of war on the ground.

Perhaps more significantly, maybe over a half-million Iraqis have been killed, many of them in horrific ways that would make you vomit if you could but for one minute—one lousy, stinking minute...—have a good, standing-there-in-the-congealing-puddles-of-blood-and-flesh-pieces look at what we've done. (And, yes, what we've done.)

Then take your umbrage that history has moved on to new victims of a new war engine in a new century.

Death is for the living...

So, too, is grief; but unlike death, which has no consciousness, grief can be the means by which we share with the people now and the world of tomorrow the prescient warning: that frightful sound in the mist just beyond our gaze is nothing less than the howling evil in the human heart, ever returning, beating yet anew the drum of murderous war.

Good mornong, Dark Wraith.

If this means that you'll be able to post more here, awesome.

For me, the swastika remains a powerful, provocative image. To me, the fate of the Jews during the Holocaust is but one part of it. Perhaps because my only claim to jewry is my undying love for kosher franks, when I see a swastika, I see it as the architects of the third reich intended, a symbol representing fascism. Rather than love for the Fatherland though, I sense a juggernaut mowing down the people, and cultivating fear and repression. The juxtaposition between that time, and now with these criminals in office practically demands the swastika be used as their branding iron. Thus your usage of it is highly appropriate.

Since Moody Blue and the good Padre bought the last rounds...Swastikas for everybody!

Oh, by the way, that mornong thing at the top was a typo left intentionally. Every time I type "Good morning, I get that 'o' rather than 'i', and since I am very easily amused, invariably I will sit there repeating "mornong" in my head about 20 times. Try it on co-workers or family members sometime...it's great seeing that look of "huh?" on their mugs.

Ok, I guess it's just me!

Dear Dark Wraith,
Ohhhhh.
I see that I did not need to point out what has been happening in blogarama after all, apparently you know far better than I! I hope you understand that I was interested in your views regarding the symbolism, your personal choices concerning images, etc. I mentioned examples of the controversy because I wanted to know how you felt since I know you are far from arbitrary.

I'm not sure what to think about this widespread harassment but I know that I remain fiercely opposed to telling other people how and where to express their views. I think this desire to censor our own has its roots in a variety of legitimate concerns BUT I think collectively we have to be careful about this.

I think that you raise questions is a key and important feature in what you do- even if it is uncomfortable. I am so sorry that you have ever had to back down lest others be subjected to attack.

In a sense, I hate to say it, but this constitutes a win in the "silence dissent" column.

Fuck 'em. I say let's talk and disagree and discuss, and refuse to yield to ugly.

Wraith,

I want to see your stuff.

I'm sad to hear about the problems with ugly comments at YouTube. I don't understand such hateful people.

I descend in ancestry from a people who suffered much, also. (I've read the history of the old clearances.) I just cannot understand how cruel some humans can be to their own kind.

Father Tyme,

Glenlivet? My personal preference (and fondness) really is Grand Marnier, though (must be my French connection?).

Trog,

Clink.

Moody Blue,
You really hit the nail on the head with Grand Marnier! That's been a favorite of mine since the revolution(?) Didi you know that they have a "cherry " flavor? But I understand it's only available north of the border.
We need a GM party!

Father Tyme,
GM is a family tradition here.

Oooh... do not mention cherry booze to me. I have a tendency to swear at people for that. Wouldn't have a thing to do with an afternoon and evening of Canadian beer and being one of three sharing a fifth of Canadian cherry whiskey after. Ha.

I should probably call a catering service to bring some deli meat to this place.

Race ya to the roast beast.

Don't forget to order head cheese.
And ingredients for bagne caulda.